Media buying Ask Me Anything, Episode 3: Revenge of the Ad

mattaw

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Oct 18, 2008
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Canada
You guys know the drill, ask me anything about media buying. I reserve the right not to answer a question if it is too personal or off topic.

Fire Away!

We'll also give away one free month long license to WhatRunsWhere for the best question as a little bonus
 


What are good, lesser-known sources for adult traffic?
what do you think the next big trend is?
 
What are good, lesser-known sources for adult traffic?
what do you think the next big trend is?

I honestly don't know anything about adult traffic, never have bought it, not something that I do.

In terms of big trend, there are a few that are emerging:

One is a higher level of programatic spending on ad platforms. With companies like BlueKai and Exelate being able to leverage data against a large amount of traffic, you're able to find niche audiences across a range of websites. I feel like this trend will continue to emerge.

Secondly, more brands will start coming online. A lot of advertising online is still DR focused (even if it doesn't seem that way). As more brands feel safer and safer, they'll start moving for of their budget online...
 
How much do you spend in order to see if a campaign is working for you on a certain source? Is it a specific number or do you go based on "feel"?


There are two ways to do it, one is a confidence interval, but to get a reliable confidence interval (90-95%) your spend would be pretty high.

My rule of thumb when I bought was 3x CPA. Aka is the offer had a $2 cpa, I'd let each thing I was testing spend $6 before I cut it or moved on. I always found this worked out pretty well for me personally.
 
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Media buying is great if you have a high converting landing page (or can direct) link effectively. With FTC Regulations on Certain Type of Landers (and what you can show) How is it that a vast majority of advertisements you still see on Media Buying networks going to "Flog" pages and Fake Review/News pages? What are the Rules?
 
Media buying is great if you have a high converting landing page (or can direct) link effectively. With FTC Regulations on Certain Type of Landers (and what you can show) How is it that a vast majority of advertisements you still see on Media Buying networks going to "Flog" pages and Fake Review/News pages? What are the Rules?


I am not a lawyer, and can not give legal advice. For that kind of advice, you'd need to consult YOUR lawyer.
 
do we need to have landing pages in media buying to get good conversions? what is the minimum monthly budget required for media buying? Is media buying profitable than ppc?
 
do we need to have landing pages in media buying to get good conversions? what is the minimum monthly budget required for media buying? Is media buying profitable than ppc?

It really depends. I've had a lot of success both ways, depends how much convincing the consumer needs to do the action you want. Also, depends on how good your advertisers landing page is.

Budget depends on the person, I'd say you need at least $500-1000 just to start testing.

Depends on the person, for me, for sure. For others, no.
 
Hi,

How do you split test your landing pages from multiple traffic sources?

Say you have

Media buy on Site 1 -> LP1
Media buy on Site 2 -> LP2
Media buy on Site 3 -> LP3

Say I have the same offer I'm advertising with media buys on multiple sites. Is it wise to have separate LP for each traffic source, or all point to one?

How do you approach this? I know it's best to have 1 traffic source per LP, since banner and LP theme/colors can make a difference.

Danny
 
Do you have any experience using an article based landing page on an offer that isn't a "rebill" per se such as a credit report offer? The article could provide the user with information about improving their credit score and contain links to a credit report offer.
 
I try to establish a base lp that works best over various sources. I know it may leave a few bucks on the table, but unless you're doing a small number of huge buys, I find it takes a ton of time.

Article based marketing has been around forever, and is effective for multiple verticals. It's all about getting a higher enough CTR. Really depends on your niche.
 
LOL, been waiting for this, so I got a few questions :)

What do you think the biggest challenge in enabling class A inventory to be sold programatically is? In your opinion when can we start seeing more of it and when the majority of it will be available that way?

When that happens, how do you think it will affect affiliates with the flood of brand advertisers on RTBs?

Do you feel that google is slowly but surely monopoling this field as well with all the acquisitions?

When going from selfserve to a managed buy, what should I be looking for in my rep to see if he is really doing his job, or he's working 9-5 and does not care for my business?

Thoughts on leanmarket and engage's new platfrom?

Thanks in advance.
 
Do you work mainly with self serve networks? Which ones?

When I bought media, I worked with a split of managed and self serve networks. These days we have close relationships with most of the self serve RTB platforms such as Engage:BDR First Impression, Lean.com and SiteScout (These are performance heavy ones), as well as retargeting platforms like ReTargeter.com. I love the concept and feel it's a great step for new media buyers to take.

LOL, been waiting for this, so I got a few questions :)

What do you think the biggest challenge in enabling class A inventory to be sold programatically is? In your opinion when can we start seeing more of it and when the majority of it will be available that way?

When that happens, how do you think it will affect affiliates with the flood of brand advertisers on RTBs?

Do you feel that google is slowly but surely monopoling this field as well with all the acquisitions?

When going from selfserve to a managed buy, what should I be looking for in my rep to see if he is really doing his job, or he's working 9-5 and does not care for my business?

Thoughts on leanmarket and engage's new platfrom?

Thanks in advance.

Okay, this will be long.. here we go:

In my opinion the biggest challenge for enabling class A inventory is revenue. Large agencies and publisher websites make a ton of money from direct sales. $XX CPMs are extremely common. At the same time, these same publishers dump remnant inventory onto the platforms and sell it for $X CPM. Publishers even go as far as to block certain advertisers on RTB platforms by raising a bid minimum to protect their margins at certain times. If this inventory was flushed onto RTB it would cut out the agency middle man in some cases and in others reduce publishers margins.

The other issue is quality. Publishers are scared to death of one bad ad showing up. Imagine if one porn ad showed up on NY Times. With ad approvals done on such a large scale, a publisher loses some control over what shows up on their website. While this isn't always 100% true, that is the perception of the exchanges still and that is a barrier to more traffic coming on.

This being said, platforms like Turn.com and Google are trying to find out ways to facilitate a double headed approach to allow this to happen. What I mean is they're creating technology to allow publishers to buy direct and negotiate direct deals via DSP interfaces.

QUICK NOTE: Watch this video on the future of RTB: Perspectives on RTB: How Both Sides Are Winning | OpenX

When this happens, affiliates are going to have access to a lot more inventory. Right now a lot of the spend online is DR focused, as this changes I think the premium inventory will continue to be bought by brands, but there will be a wider range of remnant able to be bought cheaply by affiliates.

I feel like the space is so fragmented right now that it will consolidate. I can't say who will monopolize it, but Google is looking like a clear leader right now in my opinion.

Regarding an account manager, here's what I've learned. Good account managers are hard to find, most of them just want to spend your money so they can get paid more. What I've learned is not to hesitate in asking for a new account manager. When I find one I love, I take care of them and make sure we become friends. These relationships are what makes your managed buys work.

In terms of Lean.com and First Impression. I think both of them are new and a bit raw right now but show a LOT of potential. They're both platforms to keep an eye on and I expect to make an impact on the performance (specifically affiliate marketing) heavy sector of the RTB landscape.
 
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Right now a lot of the spend online is DR focused, as this changes I think the premium inventory will continue to be bought by brands

Based on the data you guys see at WRW, do you have a rough estimate of what % of ads are DR vs brand right now?

Also, has the % of DR vs brand shifted meaningfully since you guys started collecting data?

Thanks
 
What do you use to figure out your demographics? I don't know if your own service has demographic information, but if it doesn't where do you go for accurate information? Or do you shoot from the hip from what sites like alexa show you?

In general what has been your best approach in terms of what kind of angle you use on your landing pages? (Informative articles (that lifestyle yada yada stuff), straight sales pitch, farticles, etc...) I'm guessing your answer will be it depends on the product, but in general which approach do like using?

and lastly... Is there a pay limit you stick to? Like you won't run offers under $5 because of the low margins or maybe because its harder to get offers that low profitable if your paying a high cpm?
 
Based on the data you guys see at WRW, do you have a rough estimate of what % of ads are DR vs brand right now?

Also, has the % of DR vs brand shifted meaningfully since you guys started collecting data?

Thanks

I don't have exact percentages, but I'd say still heavily DR (not just affiliate DR though).

Brands have definitely been coming online more and more into the display space as they feel it is safer and safer.

@matt - what's your plans for adding mobile data to WRW?

It is something we're considering.

What do you use to figure out your demographics? I don't know if your own service has demographic information, but if it doesn't where do you go for accurate information? Or do you shoot from the hip from what sites like alexa show you?

In general what has been your best approach in terms of what kind of angle you use on your landing pages? (Informative articles (that lifestyle yada yada stuff), straight sales pitch, farticles, etc...) I'm guessing your answer will be it depends on the product, but in general which approach do like using?

and lastly... Is there a pay limit you stick to? Like you won't run offers under $5 because of the low margins or maybe because its harder to get offers that low profitable if your paying a high cpm?

I use a mix of google ad planner, alexa and quantcast. I grab all three profiles and mix em together to get the most accurate one I can find for demographics. That's sort of the best approach I've figured out.

You're right, it depends on the offer. Personally I've had the best luck with my own custom landing pages (such as short info captures that back into the product) and direct linking. I've had some success with articles, but being a bit unique is always better as it creates barriers to copying.

When I bought media I preferred to stick to higher CPA offers. There are pros and cons to that though. It is more expensive to get more significant data on higher CPA offers while you can test quickly on lower CPA offers. I find that higher CPA offers allow a larger range of CPMs to become viable. It would be hard to back a $1 submit into a $5 cpm.